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VGA
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highpass



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:00 pm    Post subject: VGA Reply with quote

Are there any plans on releasing vga compatible skins for griff ?
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plopseaw



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: VGA Reply with quote

If you switch to real VGA mode (e.g. with SE_VGA) you see that for everything but the mixer the window is only one quarter size. I don't think that Griff is taking into account the screen dimensions and so won't support true VGA mode. So new skins aren't going to help here. Sad

Of course it works just fine in pixel doubled mode (i.e. the normal screen on a WM2003SE) device. However, it would be nice to see it natively support VGA, at least the mixer looks great with real VGA!
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daniel



Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the information plopesaw - the mixer window is dynamically sized whilst the others are all fixed in the .skin files.

I reckon if you edited the files in one the skins directory, making the background 640x480 then it'd work
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Daniel Webb
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plopseaw



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:21 am    Post subject: VGA Reply with quote

Hi,

Man oh man, thanks for the interesting tip! Daniel do you think the layouts for the section editor and pattern sequencer will also scale properly? Griff would really rock in real VGA mode.

I'll test this out and report my findings here. Then maybe its time to get out the photoshop and start the button making Wink
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daniel



Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Daniel do you think the layouts for the section editor and pattern sequencer will also scale properly?


Yes. Looking in the sequencer.skin file I can see...
Code:

         <UIElementList>
            <Song Class="SongEditor" Left="3" Top="3" Width="233" Height="100" ...



iirc this is the bit that defines the area that you can drag/drop sections onto. change the Width field and bingo...

You'll have to restart Griff for changes to take effect.

The skins for all the sequencer screens (SongEditor, SectionEditor, PatternEditor) are in this file.
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Daniel Webb
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http://www.planetgriff.com
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plopseaw



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2005 10:30 pm    Post subject: Experiments in VGA Reply with quote

Ok so I tried this and indeed it can be done! Basically I went through doubling the relevant size and position values in the sequencer skin. Some buttons then needed to be adjusted a bit to fit properly on the screen.

I was hoping to increase the number of bars shown in the pattern editor for instance. However, it seems that the grid is drawn the same as in pixel doubling mode and its not possible to zoom out any further so no real benefits in VGA mode (I could be wrong). This would probably need a change to the code.

However, I did make me think how good the existing layout actually is. So credit to Daniel for making a very usable interface. Yes the graphics could do with a makeover but otherwise its a very functional interface
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daniel



Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent pioneering work plopesaw.

I am really getting inspired by this whole vga thing, shame I haven't got any spare time at the moment and that I am the absolute slowest Graphics guy..


Quote:
I was hoping to increase the number of bars shown in the pattern editor for instance. However, it seems that the grid is drawn the same as in pixel doubling mode and its not possible to zoom out any further so no real benefits in VGA mode (I could be wrong). This would probably need a change to the code.


How do you mean ? the pattern editor will only zoom out time-wise (horizontally) to the size of the pattern, so a one bar pattern will only zoom out one bar time-wise.

pitch-wise (vertically) it should zoom out all the way to showing 127 notes.

your snazzy vga mode should get you double the pixels to display the grid - but remember you're still talking the same area physically,

Could you send me a screenshot of what you are seeing (preferably as a png or gif, not as jpg) ? send it to vgascreenshot [at] planetgriff.com.

Oh - and no dodgy pictures of your wives the rest of you Very Happy
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Daniel Webb
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http://www.planetgriff.com
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plopseaw



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2005 9:55 pm    Post subject: VGA Success! Reply with quote

Hi Daniel,

Daniel youre absolutely right, of course you can't zoom out to track data thats not there Smile. Hence I wasn't seeing any difference Very Happy So I had another look.

Now I have a fully working sequencer in VGA and its good. The clarity of the VGA screen makes zooming out to cover a large number of bars really usable. (Id post a screen shot except I don't think there is anyway of doing it with the software I have on my PDA at the moment)

I plan now to convert everything in Griff to VGA (main app + plugins). I'll post it to you when Iam done. Maybe you can put it in the Citizen Suite for free download.

If....Ive got enough time I'll start looking into creating a new VGA skin and do the same with that.

Could I swap it for Native Midi import? (only joking
Wink )

BR,

Plop
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plopseaw



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:32 pm    Post subject: VGA Again Reply with quote

Ive been playing around a bit further with Griif and specifically the sequencer in VGA. Now I notice that although everything works well, Griff is extremely slow in doing some specific things. Adding a new effect in the mixer takes about 30secs just to bring the list of plugins up. Switching between different views is also overall slower. Trying to save and quit take ages to bring the dialogue up, even without Griff playing at the same time. However, editing in the pattern editor while Griff is playing (even when fully zoomed out) works extremely well and is just as fast. Any ideas Daniel?

BR,

Plop
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daniel



Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess would be you're running short on memory. Did you double the size of the images you are using in Griff ? a background image is 320x240, in vga it's 640x480 - or something.

Maths:
I think Griff does images at 16bits = 2bytes
640 x 2 = 1280 bytes per line
1280 x 480 = 614,400 bytes = over 1/2mb per background image.

at 320x240 it'd be a quarter of that. .15mb

that image has to be in the storage(compressed) as well as in the application ram when loaded uncompressed).

Check out your memory levels when Griff is running.

Try removing the background images from the skins.

If you didn't double the size of the actual image files, did you double their size in the skins ? If so then the graphics are having to do the additional job of stretching the images to fit each time. Can't remember if Griff will try and do this or not.

If it's not that then maybe it's the graphics processor struggling with 4x the data to display and update.


To be honest though, when Griff strugles to bring us new windows it's either cpu overload or memory thrashing (not enough spare memory so something old has to be written to flash ram to make room - it;s a lot like your pc but flash ram instead of hard drive)

Sorry for the delay in the reply - I haven't gone off the boil, promise...
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Daniel Webb
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http://www.planetgriff.com
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plopseaw



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:18 am    Post subject: VGA Reply with quote

Hi Daniel,

I doubled the size of the image files and doubled the width and height settings in the skin file.

On the Loox there is 128MB of RAM, I checked this when Griff is running and there seems plenty of RAM left.

One strange thing I did notice about the delay.

- In the mixer I tap and hold to bring up create menu
- select create effect or instrument
- Long delay starts

However if I then tap on the display the list of effects/instruments appears directly. Strange Question and the slow down isnt there. Any ideas

Iam off to India for business next week, so probably no further details until later. However during the 9 hours flight, I bet I'll be the only one making music with a full sequencer

Razz

BR,

Plop
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halljames



Joined: 07 Apr 2004
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello there

I too have created a full VGA skin pack. It is available now from my download site.

http://www.hallstudios.co.uk/VGAGriffSkins.zip

I have included VGA skins for all of the default instruments and effects plus pSynth, PocketVoid and PocketPluck.

Simply copy the skins to the relevant directories and Griff will appear in Glorious VGA.

Things to note :

The conversion was done entirely on the Pocket PC and as a result, all of the skin images have been converted to jpg as Pocket Artist would open png, but not save them. This shouldn't be a problem on the whole, but in some places where an alpha channel was used, there may be a slight graphical glitch.

Make sure you backup your skins folders before copying these files on to your device. I cannot be held responsible for any damage to your Griff Installation.

I am posting these to help anybody trying to get Griff to look good on a Real VGA device.

Regards

James Hall
http://www.hallstudios.co.uk
james@james-hall.org.uk[url][/url]
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plopseaw



Joined: 04 Jan 2005
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:34 pm    Post subject: VGA Reply with quote

Super, works really well. I also don't get that annoying delay any more when adding an instrument.

Thanks James!

BR,

Plop
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daniel



Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 279

PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great work James.

Question is - Does Griff look any better.

I am getting Jealous of you VGA Griffers...
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Daniel Webb
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http://www.planetgriff.com
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3donline



Joined: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 10
Location: São Paulo

PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 4:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello There. This is my First Post here. I am very pleased to found the GRIFF software, and i am a Music Producer Hobbist. Smile

My main occupation is 3D Animation/Digital Art, and everything related to Digital Art. I am on the professional marketing working as a 3DAnimator, in Brazil (I am a Brazillian Guy...! Guess i am the first one here...hehhe)

So.. I ask for apologizes, cause my english is TERRIBLE, i know. Smile

I am a proud owner of a Dell Axim x50v. I was a Palm user until last month. (I sold my Tungsten E)...lol...

Now, i am on the PPC world. One of the Biggest faults for me on the PPC world, that i miss a lot from my Old PalmOS Plataform, was a Software Called Bhajis Loops. I thinks this is the BEST software for the PalmOS Plataform. And i became sad, when i went to PPC and it was so hard to find any quality Software for music production...

But now, i Found GRIFF. It looks Incredible. And very neat software. I didn't test it very well...But i can see that i will be happy again. Smile

So...lets to the facts. I don't have the GRIFF. But i have a VGA PDA, and experience doing Graphics of any kind.

I Would like to do a propose. Like a VGA SKIN Contest. We do the Skins and The winners receive a REgistered copy of GRIFF ?

I would like to do a VGA Skin for the GRIFF. I don't want to be paid for that, but i would like to receive a copy of GRIFF, if you guys like my Skin. Is this unfair ?

I am talking this, cause i liked this software, and i want to help it to be improved in any way. So, VGA PPCs are coming, and all the people with a VGA PPC, will be VERY pleased to use your GRIFF in the VGA Glorious. Smile
I don't have too much experience doing Skins, but i know a bit of programming, and i can read the .skins files and work exactly with the same dimmensions on Photoshop, and try to do everything correct, to work on the GRIFF.

Can i even try ? I am a hobbist. I can't spent real money on a music software for my PPC now. So, i can pay with work. Smile

I would like to ask JAMES, if i could use his ".skin" VGA file as a base for me to try to do another Skin ?

Take Care Guys ! See you all soon. Smile
_________________
Marcelo Souza
3DAnimator and Axim x50v User

m-souza.com
3donline.com.br


Last edited by 3donline on Sat Mar 19, 2005 7:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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